I come in peace: Engaging life on a flat Earth

Did you know that the Earth is actually flat, not round and that NASA and the government fuel the round Earth conspiracy?….No, neither did I but this mind-boggling world view is currently gaining momentum on the internet and has recently found its way onto my radar.

To give you a bit of background:

Alongside my vociferous online academic rantings and day job helping researchers and the lay public work together to design and implement health research, I also spend a fair bit of time volunteering with the British Science Association (the BSA). The BSA is a charity and learned society founded in 1831 with many strings to its academic bow; including the standardisation of electrical units (including the Ohm, Volt and Amp). Today it is supported by a huge backbone of volunteers working tirelessly across the country to improve the public perception of science – letting everyone know that there is much more to science than just mind boiling equations and stuffy white haired professors.

Our small group of Mancunian volunteers meet monthly to mastermind and implement a huge range of engagement activities. Over the years I’ve been with the group I’ve found myself designing an endangered species treasure hunt (based on a mash-up of Pokemon Go and geocashing), baking cake pops for an astronomy and art crossover event held on the site of Manchester City centre’s oldest observatory and, just last week, hosting over 40 AS/A-level students at a science journalism workshop.

As a group we work hard to make sure our activities are fun and open to everyone – no matter what their academic background. But, we’re not naive, so we recognise that our reach is still pretty small and that there are many communities in our home city who will never have heard of us. This is why we have been working with a BSA volunteer from our Birmingham branch who’s role has been to help us find out more about Manchester’s hard to reach communities and discover how we can offer them meaningful engagement. It was during one of our meetings she said that she had been in contact with someone who runs a computer coding club for local teenagers and had noticed that some of these youngsters were adamant supporters of the ‘flat Earth’ theory – which is apparently backed up by a number of celebrities including rapper B.o.B who recently went on a amusing and disturbing Twitter rant about the topic.

This got me thinking. If science has never really been your thing, which is fine by the way just like P.E was never my thing, how do you avoid falling down the black hole of conspiracy theories (Illuminati, anti-vaccination, flat Earth)?

These theories offer an alternative world view which can, at first glance, appear to fit much better with the world we see and experience around us every day than the complex and often invisible world of science. Take flat Earth as a example. In our everyday lives we interact with both flat and round objects (compare a table top with a yoga ball) and, from these interactions, we build up an understanding of how these objects work. On a very basic level we see that things fall off a ball, you can’t really balance things on it like you can a table and it has an obvious curvature. Then take a look at the Earth. We can stand and walk along it with no obvious indication of its curvature, water sits flat in rivers and oceans it doesn’t run down the sides of the Earth as you would see if you spilled a glass of water onto a yoga ball. So, assuming you have little or no interest in astronomy (perhaps you live in the city center so don’t get a good view of the night sky anyway) and the mathematics of gravity and scale makes your head hurt, it’s easy to understand why you may choose to mistrust theories which you cannot test or see for yourself.

So, with this in mind, my question is: Is it possible to design activities and interactions that don’t patronise or assume knowledge but enable people to test scientific theories in ways that make sense and allow them to simply observe the outcomes with their own eyes?

We are now hoping to meet with this community, attend some of their activities, make friends and let them know scientists are just ordinary people. Then we want to jump in and put together a small accessible science festival where everyone can have fun and hopefully engage with science on a small scale. I get the feeling it’s not going to be an easy sell but will undoubtedly be worth it if done properly.

My mind is bubbling with ideas, including the possibility of sending a Go-Pro camera up on a balloon and playing back the footage – the possibilities are endless…although sadly our budget isn’t. Whatever happens, I’m excited and will keep you all updated on our progress as things move forward.

For now I want to invite anyone reading this to drop me a line in the comments below. Perhaps you’re an academic who has worked on a similar event and has some ideas, or maybe you’re keen on the flat Earth theory and want to tell us more about what you believe? Either way I’d love to hear from you.

Post by: Sarah Fox

Update: A pretty interesting gif image of a few pictures my telescope loving partner took last night showing Jupiter spinning on its axis – notice how the great red spot moves round. Perhaps we could bring our telescopes along to the festival and have a play 🙂

107 thoughts on “I come in peace: Engaging life on a flat Earth”

  1. Firstly. Dont use a go pro because of the fish eye lense so you’ll will obviously as demonstrated time after time, see false curvature. Use wide angle lense…..
    Secondly, try to search out all historical experiments regarding the serch for curvature going back as far as about 800 to a 1000 years, or further if desired. Eg. Michaelson Morley experiment.
    This will be most advantageous.
    Lastly try to not be biased.
    Enjoy your search…….Nuff love, Ds

    • Yes yes rotating on its axis 1000 mph while magic sticky water clings to the suface, circling the sun at 60thousand mph, while the sun scorched through the sky at 600 thousand mph, all while our galaxy mozies along at some number with a shit load of zeros and we still have not disussed the universe expanding at the craziest number +1. And I believed this bullshit. It’s flat and NASA is a bunch of lying scum. Phew rant over.

  2. Hello sarah…most if not all go-pro cameras use fish eyed lenses…its perspective is that of a spherical view. Not a good camera to use in my humble opinion. I thought the entire flat earth theory would not hold up…2 years later…im still fascinated.

  3. I would recommend not using a GoPro camera, as it has a fish-eye lense, which will give you a rounded image. Felix Baumgarter used one in his Red Bull jump over New Mexico. In the footage, it appears as though New Mexico must be massive, but it was a false effect created by a lense. that

  4. If you truly are using the scientific method, you are going to be surprised at your results.mickleson /gale…….MICKLESON /morley. ……sagnac……failed Aireys experiment. …Picard balloon flight

    • Good to know, so many use/and BELIEVE the General Theory of Relativity as a Law that proves the BALL.

  5. This is a great idea Sarah. It’s so nice to know there are people who are willing to engage in research and debate without the name calling and insults. I never questioned the ball earth until very recently and I tried to debunk flat earth but the more I looked into it the more it made sense. I’m still not sure as there are question marks with both models and I have lots of questions. And since a very small child I loved globes and have lots in my home. So the idea of flat earth was not something I thought about at all. The thing that surprised me the most was the amount of hatred poured on flat earthers. Surely people should be able to question what they are told and research for themselves. A good test would be to go to the seaside and watch some boats disappear over the horizon and see if you can bring them back in to view with binoculars or zoom lens camera which could prove there is no curve. Good Luck

  6. The human race deserves too know earth is flat. Hopefully we can one day end this modern-day slavery. Hey I have an idea let’s all go to Antarctica.

  7. I guess you can fool all of the people some of the time has arrived, and lots of people are making the effort to actually check where we live, instead of accepting what is written in books. Science should not be, do experiments until the required result is achieved and come up with eqausions for force the round peg in the square hole.

  8. Oh hi Sarah! I’m Cathy and I co-host on ‘Secrets Revealed’ and our show is on tonight, with guest Mark Sargent! I hope to bring your post up. And invite folks to come read and comment. The commenters so far have done a stellar job re: Go-Pro, experiments that prove the earth does not move and Piccard. There is a lot going on here and I hope you’ll take an honest look yourself.

    truthfrequencyradio.com TONIGHT 3/11 7 pm EST – Zen Garcia and Mark Sargent

    • Photoshopped – same set of images, each time they change them slightly and distribute them worldwide through institutions and education establishments

      • Thanks, questions I like. Because we who no longer believe we live on a ball could be wrong!

        1) So First look try and answer these questions yourself. (Don’t look at response I received until after you answer the questions)

        How do satellites get their static electricity build up removed and endure the insane temperature fluctuations?

        How do satellites reorient themselves with never ending magic recharging satellite fuel?

        Do satellites get ever repaired, or do they never break down in a hostile environment? Who does the work?

        NEXT This is a THREAD where I asked those same qustions with the response below.

        Re: THE Moon Thread pt. 2
        Postby dissident » Sat 11 Mar 2017, 10:07:20

        daveflat wrote: (ME ASKING QUESTION)
        Kinda of regarding the moon…. Can someone PLEASE explain to me these simple questions? I cannot find info on it for some reason? THANKS!

        Do Satellites never need repair? Who does the work?

        How do satellites get their static electricity build up removed and endure the insane temperature fluctuations?

        How do satellites reorient themselves with never ending magic recharging satellites fuel?

        Thanks Again!- David Hicks

        PERSON ON FORUM ANSWERING____________________below

        Satellites are disposable items. If they break, then they are space junk. One of the alleged benefits of the Shuttle was supposedly the ability to fix satellites by retrieving them. But with every launch costing around $600,000,000 there was no sane economic justification for such repair activity.

        LEO satellite orbits are high enough that drag from upper atmospheric gases is too small to de-orbit them on the timescale of 20 years. Most satellites do not even reach 15 years of life anyway. GEO orbits are way beyond any atmospheric drag but still within the magnetic field of the Earth that ducts the solar wind ion stream (protons and electrons) and shields the satellites. BTW, the mass of the outermost layer of the Earth’s atmosphere is totally dominated by metallic elements from space junk.

        The relatively short life of satellites allows them to carry a small amount of fuel to operate thrusters. Given the facts mentioned above, they do not need a massive amount of energy to maintain their orbits. Most satellites do not engage in re-orientation. Only the LEO science satellites (e.g. UARS) engage in this to maximize their data gathering and they don’t last long in orbit.

        (the person replying gave a nasa website link as a source here which I omitted)

        GEO satellites don’t change orientation whatsoever (we are not talking about the launch stage but the operation stage).
        User avatar
        dissiXXXXX (I blocked out name of person)

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        THE Moon Thread pt. 2
        Post a reply

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        Re: THE Moon Thread pt. 2
        Postby daveflat » Sat 11 Mar 2017, 10:34:22

        So 15 years is a relatively short life? Really? In a crazy harsh environment?

        You just said:
        “But with every launch costing around $600,000,000 there was no sane economic justification for such repair activity. ”

        Do you understand that that crazy number of almost a BILLION dollars is paid for by the satellite company right. So how many satellites do they put up on one of these trips because lets say they do 10 at once that would mean that each satellite costs $60 MILLION just to get up, THEN their is the cost to build something so reliable that it can last 15 years without malfunction and yet you simply say that they are “disposable”!!!!!! Really????? Business are in business to make PROFIT! I can ASSURE you that there are not many businesses that can afford to simply call a $60 million dollar investment (PER said Satellite) jsut to get it up not INCLUDING development and building cost!!!!! and just say its Disposable.

        Again, I would not call a 15 year working life in a harsh environment, so for 15 years these thrusters are working on a limited amount of fuel that is VERY VERY hard to believe, I would imagine these things need to be reoriented quite often, DOES NOT make sense what you said, common sense that is.

        If you had read any of my previous posts you would know what I think of the scum at NASA. Can you give me any other sources or is NASA the only one with this information. Not trying to be a dick.

        You said:
        “GEO satellites don’t change orientation whatsoever (we are not talking about the launch stage but the operation stage).”

        FROM WIKI:
        “The ISS requires an average 7,000 kg of propellant each year for altitude maintenance, debris avoidance and attitude control. Based on current usage, it will need 105,000 kg through 2014. A Propulsion Module would have provided reserve propellant for one year of ISS orbit life in case of supply interruption. A Propulsion Module would have been attached to the Unity node of the ISS.”

        So ISS needs propellant 7000kg of propellant per YEAR and these satellites are good for 15 year never needing more than a “bit” of propellant and “magically’ stay oriented all while never colliding with this so called other space junk”. Thats ALOT you are asking me to believe and NOT believe no?

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        END POST

        FEEL FREE to POKE HOLES IN MY LOGIC- David Hicks (daveflat in post above)

        • “So ISS needs propellant 7000kg of propellant per YEAR and these satellites are good for 15 year never needing more than a “bit” of propellant and “magically’ stay oriented all while never colliding with this so called other space junk”

          The ISS is in a very low orbit because it is so expensive and difficult to get such a large object into a high orbit and to keep ferrying people etc. to it.

          This means that it is affected by the outer reaches of the atmosphere far more than most satellites, which being smaller are more easily placed in stable, higher orbits.

          Sorry if that’s a hole poked in your logic, but it is.

          • I shouldn’t even bother responding to such an incredibly weak refutation but I will for YOUR benefit.

            You said”The ISS is in a very low orbit because it is so expensive and difficult to get such a large object into a high orbit and to keep ferrying people etc. to it.” PLEASE TELL ME WHAT THAT PROVES??????!!!!

            I see you” think” that “PROVES” why satellites do NOT need reorientation lol. So let me ask a follow up question to your argument.

            You say “This means that it is affected by the outer reaches of the atmosphere far more than most satellites”, WHAT does FAR MORE mean? Can you at least refer the board to the calculation THAT proves THAT ?

            I could destroy youranswer 100 different ways but I’ll stop there because anyone with the smallest amount of critical thinking skills would agree that what you stated neither explains or proves ANYTHING. NEXT.

  9. Wow what an interesting discussion this post has spawned. Myself and my partner are amateur astronomers – our whole spare room is full of telescope bits and it’s pretty amazing what you can see with some relatively low priced kit – you should all check out a few of his posts on this site :). Last night he took a number of pictures of Jupiter over the course of a night and he put the picts together as a gif, you can see the planet spinning on its axis (I can’t seem to attach this picture in the comments so I’ll update my original post with this image). Of course to my mind the whole flat Earth notion just doesn’t seem to fit but it’s really interesting hearing why others believe it! – I hope the show goes well Cathy and you get some good discussion going.. be sure to explore all angles 😉

    • We don’t need discussion…the debate between the flat earth hypothesis and the globalist hypothesis can be resolved – let’s use some science!
      The curvature of the earth equates to approx. 12cm per kilometre multiplied by the square of the distance. See link to this handy tool:


      Now, maybe this would be a good project school science project, for years 10 or 11, i.e. to measure the curvature of the earth.
      The class could research methods to measure this and then actually go and do it!
      Measuring curvature across the Irish Sea might be a good place to start?
      A very high powered laser would resolve this.
      For example, the distance across the Irish Sea from the Isle of Man’s Douglas Harbour to Great Orm’s Head in North Wales is 60 miles.
      If the Earth is a globe, then the surface of the water between them would form a 60 mile arc, the centre towering 1944 feet higher than the coastlines at either end.
      On a clear day, from a modest altitude of 100 feet, the Great Orm’s Head is visible from Douglas Harbor.
      Assuming the 100 foot altitude causes the horizon to appear approximately 13 miles off, the 47 miles remaining means the Welsh coastline should still fall an impossible 1472 feet below the line of sight!
      It might be better at night, easier to see lights of Great Orm’s Head.


      • People already tested over water all over the world bruh. It’s flat. When was the last time you saw water curve at a lake?

        • I saw the horizon at Lake Tahoe and then the boat traveled to that point and I saw more lake! So it must be that the gravity that held me in the boat and held the boat in the water also was holding the water in the lake and forming the curved surface.

        • Actually David, you no doubt will find this hard to believe, but if you use a laser level it is possible to measure the curve on surprisingly small bodies of water, but you do have to wait for exceptionally still conditions.

          Over a distance of about 200 meters the curve is about 3mm.

  10. I respect your honesty on the topic of flat earth. This is the first article that is not attacking the subject but rather taking the appropriate approach to determine the facts for ones self. Enjoy your journey!

    • I agree usually its instant insults 😠
      No proof lots of info about flat earth but no proof of globe and its not new its just growing
      Just gp to YouTube and enter flat earth
      Mark sargent has the most interesting
      There is even several apps

  11. When you guys refer to the Earth being flat, are you saying that the moon is flat and the planets are too?

    Because even with a small telescope you can easily see the curvature of the moon. Not to mention you can see the curvature of the Earth from the ISS.

    There is no way to even defend the Earth being flat. Go travel to Antarctica and see if you will fall off the Earth……..

      • So what’s the thing that looks like the ISS I’ve seen and photographed (rather badly although you can just make out some detail, others have done much better).

        Presumably it’s a unicorn? Or a flying pig?

    • Móon is cheese did u read books when you were a kid? Actually not sure about moon and planets yet myself but why couldn’t we live on an infinite plane?

      U tube university will open your mind if you let it?

      • > U tube university will open your mind if you let it?

        Ah yes. I saw it on You Tube, so it must be true!

        Funnily enough i saw quite a lot of CGI in the last Flat Earth video I watched, I almost thought it was NASA propaganda…

  12. Both views are difficult to prove as every proof can be convincingly refuted.
    A few thoughts.
    What does the map of the flat earth look like?
    Does it have some kind of Einsteinian geometry that stops us falling off the edge, allows round the world flights and cruises?
    Forget fisheye lenses, anyone who has travelled on Concorde will have seen a curved horizon.

    • What does the flat earth map look like? Do a search for:

      gleason’s new standard map of the world

      The UN use the flat earth map in their logo.

      This explains why southern hemisphere flights have odd stopovers.

      Fly from South America to South Africa or AUZ / NZ. Stopover in Middle East or even Europe?

      Why not just fly straight over the Southern Ocean? It’s much quicker and would save a small fortune on aviation fuel!

      • At the risk of disturbing your world view (literally) get a globe and stick a pin in South America and South Africa (or Australia).

        Pull a length of cotton between the two pins and it will mark the shortest distance between them. Now, does the cottom cross the Southern Ocean?

  13. Try doing a distance laser test over a body of water. You will need a very powerful laser which I’m sure if you find a donation for snd you need a few miles of stretch across a body of water. And don’t mistake what you see in a telescope for what the Earth must look like because that is apples to oranges.

    • The experiment has been done and proves the water curves down away from the laser, so yes that experiment proves the earth is round.

  14. We’ve been living a lie sense the begining of time …Somebody is in control of all our thoughts…An we don’t even know it…Everything we’ve learn about n school is all lies..All the things we thought…We didn’t evolve from UI apes..We are our own spec..We are of Devine creation…We are suppose to be involved in something greater than the everyday work for nothing …js…Our planet is running out of juice…Because a few people are sucking up all resources for financial gain..

  15. In this great novel of the” Solar System” the Earth is “round” flying through space at over 600 thousand miles an hour, I am not certain if that is where we are, look at the logo of the UN and count the continents where is Antarctica, and for the academics try this equation 8 inches times per mile squared that should be the amount of curvature based off of 25000 mile circumference of an earth, science can be thought of as the essence of a particular study full of hypotheses and theories. Are the laws of gravity truly laws, the theory of relativity is simply a theory. Science should be fluid the path of least resistanceunless you dwell in the complexity of “S” sense(science), I’m not the simpleness of sense are your five senses, common sense

    • Look up theory in a dictionary.

      Hypothesis is informed speculation on the causes of observable facts.

      Theory is a more developed, testable, explanation of observed fact, it remains open to revision in the light of better or more complete data and experiment.

      While two theories may compete, this is a good thing as they can be tested an the most robust explanation will eventually win out.

    • > look at the logo of the UN and count the continents where is Antarctica,

      Look at th American flag!

      50 stars!

      Clearly proof that claims there are thousands or even billions of stars in the sky are totally false.

      • Your lack of critical thinking skills is proven by your rebuttals/answers to my questions and statements. SAD really. There is no helping you. I believe the quote below describes your mindset perfectly. Good luck.

        “There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance – that principle is contempt prior to investigation”

  16. Mathematics do not lie either the force that gravity has would make us all flesh into soup it’s hard for me to explain since English is not my first language

  17. I think it’s very commendable & brave to publish an article about our flat earth- only im convinced it’s the solid truth and no longer just a theory. To read an article about the flat earth finally being published by a professional in the science community is a beautiful thing bcuz it’s such an important fact to know about ourselves & has everything to do with our human history and origin. Its beyond shameful the most important basis of who we are has been kept from our knowledge. No wonder there is so much utter chaos going on everywhere! Now if u really wanna go full circle with spreading this enlightenment then u shud reveal the rest of it which is the actual firmament that is covering our flat earth.

  18. Just because Jupiter is round and appears to rotate doesn’t mean we do?
    That’s not good science, it just proves some lights in the sky appear to spin.

    • Either we spin, or the sun, stars, moon and planets are orbiting around us at immense speeds.

      Which do you think is more likely?

  19. Morning all – In the UK anyway.

    I’m starting to think that a number of commenters here have missed the point of my original article (sorry if I wasn’t clear I think the very British sarcasm at the beginning may have thrown some people) – this being that I’m was entirely shocked that young people in our community still believe that the Earth is flat and that I’d love to talk with them to understand where this unusual belief has come from – because I think calling them names and dismissing their personal beliefs is counterproductive and harmful. It’s better to tackle a misconception from a point of understanding. I want to approach young people in the community as a scientist who is willing to listen and hopefully be listened to since talking down to people causes huge problems.

    I do honestly thank you all for your interesting comments but I need to set the record strait: I’m not a believer in the idea of a flat earth – I can’t be with the sheer amount of astronomy my partner does showing the movements of all our amazing neighboring spheroid planets, movements of the stars and the differences in constellations as we travel around the world.

    I’ve also been lucky enough to be in contact with researchers who design probes to send into space and rely entirely upon the accepted physics of a traditional solar system to do so. There are huge swathes of people working in this field and so much money spent here that if the government did believe we lived on an alternative physical world why on earth would they spend so much on interstellar research that would obviously fail? Perhaps it could be argued that they are playing the long game to keep us in the dark – but I’m not cynical enough to believe that the greater powers are willing to sink billions into a field of research they know is fruitless when that money could be spent elsewhere.

    Also, although I do understand how hard it can be to accept evidence which you can’t see and test yourself it does seem an unusual stance to dismiss all evidence from space travel (pictures etc) as false. There are a lot of things I and many others can’t and probably won’t see (the bottom of the oceans, the lunar landscape, the movement of subatomic particles). But that doesn’t mean I think that others can’t study this – they can and they do and it’s amazingly interesting.

    That said this has all been really interesting and – If I find some good experiments we can do with a relatively tight budget in the city center I’ll certainly post the results here :).

    Thanks again

    • Just because people study something ,it doesn’t make it true,,,we live in a world of opposite truths,and flat earth y
      Theory as it was introduced ,only proofs to me that it is part of bigger mind programming,and part of melting the brain

      • Indeed, we now live in a world where the truth is determined by popular vote rather than by the evidence.

        I’m glad we can agree on something.

    • Sarah,

      I’m very pleased that a member of the scientific community has broached this subject. If you follow the scientific evidence, you will fall out with your employer!

      As you’re interested in astronomy, maybe you could consider the problem of parallax.

      If we walk around a park, the trees will appear to change position, relative to each other, from the observers point of view. Why does this not happen with the stars?
      If earth is spinning at 1000 MPH at the equator, and is moving around the sun 67,000 MPH, and the solar system is moving around the Milky Way at 45,000 MPH – then why do we observe no parallax?

      Why do the stars not change position, relative to each other – similar to the trees in the park?

      • It does. We do. Objects within our solar system do.

        It’s just that stars are such a massive distance away that they don’t overlap. If you measure the angles of stars at one time, and measure them again in 6 months (when the Earth is on the opposite side of the Sun) then you can do some trigonometry and work out their distance away. I think this is how we first measured out that most of the stars in the sky are relatively close to us (i.e. in our own galaxy), and some blurry objects in the sky are a huge distance away (which better telescopes showed to contain other stars and be other galaxies).

        But then that’s astronomy rather than what-I-imagine-would-be flat-earthism.

      • Interestingly Steve, the nearby stars do change their position because of parallax. In fact astronomers use stellar parallax to measure the distances to these nearby stars. If you image a nearby star at a certain time of the year and then repeat the image 6 months later, the star will have moved slightly relative to distant stars. This movement is small, the closest star from the Sun Proxima Centauri move less than 1/3600th of a degree but with modern instruments and careful observation the movement is easily detectable. Since we know the straight line distance of the Earth between the observations we can easily calculate the distance to Proxima Centauri and many other stars.

        One thing to mention is that amateur astronomers can now obtain telescopes that have the capability of resolving these fine angles. If they live in regions where the atmosphere is dry and still then they can measure Stellar parallax directly!


        • OK, thanks for responses to parallax problem. Surely, the image of the night sky should change completely, as globalism theory states that we are moving so very fast through the universe?
          How can long exposure pictures of the night sky be explained? The stars literally are spiralling around the earth – this is not what we would see if the earth were moving as per globalism hypothesis.
          === ===
          How about gyroscopes? Experiments have been done (see You Tube) where a gyroscope is set in motion on a table and then observed over a six hour period.
          If the earth were spinning a quarter revolution, the gyroscope should appear to change position by 90 degrees. This does not happen, see YT vids for yourself.
          How would gyroscopes ever work if the earth were moving as per globalism theory?
          The calculations as to true position of the aircraft would be difficult for a super-fast computer!
          Gyroscopes are only able to function because the earth is an extended plain (plain-et, planet).
          It is claimed that modern gyroscopes use the earth’s magnetic field to ‘correct’ themselves.
          If this is so, then why is the gyroscope needed at all? Why not use this fantastical magnetic detection device to ascertain the 3D position and acceleration of the aircraft?
          I would also like to point out that an explanation does not equate to empirical scientific data / evidence / proof.
          I will rely upon analogy here. When the police catch people doing what they should not be doing, wrong-doers will give all kinds of fanciful explanations! Luckily, our police forces are not as gullible as the general public…
          Modern ‘science’ seems to be more about fantastical and in-credible concepts and hypotheses. Just stick 20 zeros on the end of it – the public will fall for anything..!

          • Do me a favor, watch this video and then tell me where the person is wrong regarding the computer animated beach ball and later while using the pythagoram theory to DISPROVE a Ball Earth, and actually prove a flat earth. And Yes it is quite OBVIOUS that you have no interest in seeking out evidence that the earth is NOT a BALL.
            EVERYONE watch video below MATH PROVES EARTH IS FLAT
            Pythagoras Proved That The Earth is Not A Sphere

            “There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance – that principle is contempt prior to investigation”

            You might want to check your OWN reasons for writing the article casuse it damn well isn’t to seek the TRUTH!
            DAVID HICKS NJ

          • Stars a very big and move very fast. But they are also a VERY LONG WAY AWAY.

            Just as a jet appears to crawl across the sky when it is flying very high.

            Except stars are HUGELY further away.

            Space is as big as some peoples’ minds are small.

      • Hmm, it happens with the planets as they are much closer. You don’t need a telescope to see the effect – it’s obvious that the positions on the sky of Saturn, Mars and Jupiter move ‘backwards’ across the sky as earth moves through the closest part of its orbit to them, explainable only by parallax.

        But just as you can’s see a distant tree move unless you move around the park, teh further away something is the less the effect of parallax so it takes careful measurement to detect parallax at star distances (but it can be done).

        In fact the recent occulation of Aldebaran by the moon was a good example as the timings varied depending on where on the globe you were.

  20. The angle of the rays of the sun prove it is not 150 000 000 miles from earth. And the moon is the exact same size which is self illuminating. I noticed the other day while they were both visible, the moons dark side was the opposite side to the Suns position which should be impossible on a globe earth. These are things which can be observed with the human eye on a regular basis

    • Get a light bulb for the sun and a tennis ball for the moon. Use your head as the earth.

      See if you can recreate half of the tennis ball moon being lit up? Now tell me, did your head cease to be roughly spherical for the duration of the experiment?

      Be warned, this experiment may not work if you have a point on top of your head.

    • A simple experiment:

      Three observations, from different places on the planet, of the sun’s position at a certain time of day, at the same time, say noon; maybe three cities a thousand miles distant from each other.
      Could the sun’s distance and position be calculated using simple triangulation?

      • That’s very hard, as the sun is approx 83 million miles away. Even with a 1000 mile baseline, you need to be able to measure an angle that only differs by one part in 100000. The curvature of the earth has more effect than the difference in angle of the sun.

        To all intents and purposes, the illimunation from the sun can be treated as parallel at all surface points.

        • My only point of contention is with your statement “the sun is 93 million miles away”, a better statement could be we are “told” or we “believe” the sun is 93 million miles…..

  21. I think what you are trying to do here is commendable Sarah. Showing kids that experiments can reveal more about our world and dispel misconceptions is always worth doing. Don’t be disheartened by some of the comments here; there will always be people that reject evidence and mistrust scientific arguments. The problem is that if you come to think that science is a tool used to mislead you then it doesn’t matter how much evidence is presented, you will never except it or even consider it.

    Carry on the good work. I think that by using a camera in a balloon is still a fun thing to do. There are lots of youtube videos of this but I would still be excited to see it happening for real. Try and show that the camera is capable of rendering a straight line (i.e. has a flat field) before sending it up. Also, make sure the Civil Aviation Authority knows what you are doing!

    Good luck!

    • Science has become religion, thank you for confirming. Oh by the way, I am 45 years old and PISSED OFF at scum NASA (Hoax videos are Hilarious so at least we got something for our nmoney!). We all been BRAINWASHED GOOD. Some better than others lol.

      • What a shame.

        If you opened your eyes and saw the true wonder of the universe you might realise how pathetic your petty rudeness appears against the infinite.

  22. What people are failing to realise is that the confusions coming because although visually from space it may appear spherical we are experiencing it as flat it’s a construct of our sensory decoding system it’s a matrix if you want to put it that way to truly understand it we have to step outside the parameters of the way we understand reality..

    • Ah, one of those people who (a) either can’t tell the difference between THE MATRIX and the NATIONAL GEOGRAPHIC or you’bve been eating too many happy pills, perhaps?

  23. The simplest way to prove the Earth isn’t flat is to take a telescope or binoculars to the coast on a clear day. and watch a ship disappear over the horizon. The mast of the ship will disappear last.

    Another simple observation is that during a lunar eclipse the Earth casts a rounded shadow on the Moon.

    • Unfortunately your observation about ships is totally wrong! If you take a telescope to the beach you’ll be able to bring the entire ship back into view try it for yourself it’s very interesting as horizons are not actually real that’s why they constantly move as you do

          • Have you ever been on a ship?

            Have you ever actually stood next to the sea and then climbed a tall hill?

            Or are you welded to your sofa?

          • It’s all faked. It was done by the same company that faked all the Nasa pictures. Their business model is to make fakes for everyone.

          • Have you heard the indian or chinese guy with the funny accent point out the absurdity of the hatch that actually bends when the astrNOTS try to close it- FUNNY AS SH$T- he says look da hatch go bendy bendy bendy, awwwwww da hatch bendy, nooooo shouldn’t be bendi bendi hatch in space. lololololol

            I read somewhere that europeans are widely known to make fun of the absurdity of NASA, not if that is true or not.

            There is a hillbilly dude who does a video of the insane explanation one of the women astroNOTS give for how they crap and piss- YOU HAVE TO SEE IT TO BELIEVE IT, it’s in the NASA compilations videos, FUNNY as FU%K! She says she sits and craps while holding a piss tube to her vagina. LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL Does NOT get ANY better than that!!!!!!

            So at least NASA is providing us with some comedy for our money!

  24. The money we spend on research and faking space can be understood when you realize the massive amount of tax doallars NASA/ government syphens from the public via tax dollars. Other governments have caught on to this scheme and have stolen money from their worker bees as well. It’s simply a clever business model. And a serious delusion.
    This rabbit hole goes deep. I had believed we went to the moon, Never really has reason to doubt it. I can say this, the only thing you need to do to know we didn’t go to the moon is watch the video of the 3 astronauts they did for the press after the mission. You’ve never seen 3 men more uncomfortable and obviously lying than in this example.
    Then ask yourself if they lied to us about that. How can you trust any of the fake CGI images from NASA? You have to be very gullible if you do. Furthermore most scientist believe we went to the moon in light of all the evidence they can actually observe, physical evidence. And if any scientist can’t see that it was fake then they shouldn’t be scientist at all. It’s absolutely laughable! So don’t tell me science knows a thing about space so far away when they can’t figure out a simple hoax right in front of their faces.

    • So the moon mission was faked because you think three people looked uncomfortable.

      It’s a good job we don’t expect scientists to achieve such high standards of proof.

    • CGI was not invented when the moon landings occurred.

      Digital photography/ photoshop /CGI was invented at least 5 years after the Moon landings

    • Damn Straight, in that video it looks like the 3 had just been sentenced to death by stoning. Body language clearly shows shame. How the “F” can anyone with a brain not see that. I just can’t.

  25. I’m worried about those poor elephants and the turtle. They must be absolutely knackered, yet I never hear anyone speaking out for their welfare. Surely it isn’t too much to ask some folks to go to the edge and pass some decent food to their trunks.

    I’m sure that, if asked nicely, the elephants would pass some of it on to the poor turtle.

  26. This quote is what WE are up against:

    “There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance – that principle is contempt prior to investigation”

    What I mean by that is “WE” have been brainwashed since childhood, it’s very difficult to change a CORE BELIEF. BELIEVE NO ONE not me not some dude in lab coat- determine what you choose believe on your own.

    Keep searching and asking questions grasshoppa!

  27. SO FUNNY.
    I asked the guy who made the video on youtube called “moon hoax not” about how he could possibly think it would be easier to go to the moon then fake it, a question.

    I copy and pasted our conversation below.
    Can anyone see what a FAIL in logic that is OR he is a LIAR.

    Top comments
    David Hicks (ME)
    David Hicks1 day ago
    Why don’t you explain all the things that actually make people wonder if we went to the moon rather than talk about it in technical jargon that less than 1 in 100,000 people will understand and I am probably overstating that by at least a factor of one or two.

    Yes, I imagine it is much more difficult to make a film about a moon landing thanto actually go to the moon. Perfectly logical. I guess that’s why we have gone back so many times since.
    Show less

    DUDE who Made Video
    sgcollins1 day agoHighlighted reply
    hi david, who did you mean by ‘you’ in this message? if you meant me, my reason for not talking about those things is because i have no knowledge of them.

    David Hicks (ME)
    David Hicks1 second ago
    So HOW can YOU then so easily disclaim that it was NOT a HOAX like YOUR video is TITLED?
    This quote applies as much to YOU as it DOES to ME?
    “There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance – that principle is contempt prior to investigation”
    Show less
    David Hicks
    David Hicks1 second ago
    OOOOOPs backed yourself into a corner ehhhhhh????? lololololololol
    David Hicks
    David Hicks1 second ago
    I have also copy pasted this conversation to another site, no memory hole for this GEM!THANKS

    • Continued conversation from Moon Hoax Not YOUTUBE video LOLOLOL

      David Hicks (ME) 6 hours ago
      The TITLE of your video is “MOON HOAX NOT”. The TITLE of your video implies that YOU have come to the CONCLUSION or hold the belief that the moon landing is NOT a hoax no?

      It is just interesting to me that you would create a video that has THE specific TITLE regarding the Moon Landing NOT being a HOAX (which it was) and then go on to say that “(I ) didn’t talk about those things because I HAVE NO KNOWLEDGE OF THEM”, it seems almost as INCREDIBLE as the FAKE MOON LANDINGS themselves.
      Show less
      David Hicks
      David Hicks5 hours ago
      I SOUND ANGRY because MY TAX dollars probably PAID to HAVE this video made with NASA’s $1/2 TRILLION budget since the 1st FAKE moon landing, and $16 BILLION budget for 2016. Yes, I work very hard to make a living and that pisses me off.

      Now as to the quality of the argument you make in the video it is VERY convincing, so congratulations to YOU for keeping 2 million brainwashed Americans fast asleep!

      Now if you would like to learn about why a person like me would feel so passionate about this subject why don’t we debate our points in an open debate forum maybe some online radio, a VERY good chance BOTH of us could learn something….. So many interesting little “mistakes” or maybe you are right!

      I’d actually love to do it, thats why I do not hide behind some fake screen name, I’m just a chocolate maker in NJ.

      A search for TRUTH is driving me at this point, which I hope you would agree is nothing to be ashamed of. Thanks for your responses.
      Show less
      sgcollins3 hours ago (dude who made video)
      hi david. i too would be pissed off if my tax dollars had been used to produce some guy’s essay video. so if that’s what you think happened, i understand completely. (that’s not what happened. i made that clip at no cost to myself or anyone else. all the footage in it is stolen.) let me ask you this, though: would you agree with me that governments generally deceive and conspire against the people? i’m just curious to see if we’re on the same wavelength somewhere. thanks.
      Show less
      Retro Brothers (some random ZOMBIE)
      Retro Brothers31 minutes ago
      I think he explains everything well to the layman. What’s so hard to understand about what is said in the video?
      David Hicks (ME)
      David Hicks1 second ago
      Let me bring some 1st grade logic too you so we can see if any of the 21 THOUSAND zombies who upvoted you…..WAIT ONLY 21 THOUSAND out of 2 MILLION VIES upvoted you lol……. HOUSTON WE HAVE A PROBLEM!!!!! I almost think this is not worth arguing over (only 1% of the people (the absolute and complete zombified) who watched this video thought well of it enough to click a button lol).

      But for fun I will couple of a final points.
      Your very first sentence, “this is why the moon hoax would have been impossible, take 1”, The budget for the 1ST moonlanding in todays dollars would be $160 BILLION. I understand that an expert in his particular field such as YOURSELF should think “highly” of himself, ESPECIALLY when said person has the GUMPTION to imply that the IT WOULD BE EASIER TO go to the MOON, which Thousands of people worked to get there (they didn’t) then to make a moon landing film.

      Bro, @ 35 second into your deceptive video you state clearly, “In fact the opposite is true….By the late 1960’s they (NASA) did have the technical ability not to mention the requisite madness toooooooo send 3 guys to the moon and back…..WAIT WHA????? I thought you knew NOTHING about being an astroNOT or space engineer, YOU STATE above and I quote ” i don’t know all those things. so i did not talk about them”. BUT YOU do have the ABILITY to determine the technical ability of NASA to get to the MOON?

      Bruh, you just digging this hole deeper. Let it rest, you got paid, you have been thouroghly discredited by me and I did not spend more than 1 hour or so to get you tripping over your own two feet as poorly as the dudes in th fake moon landing movie. THANKS and remember I have SCREENSHOTS of this conversation so when it disappears, just makes my point better, but if it stays IT makes my point better. What a QUANDRY EHHHHH?

      If you like I can send a copy of screen shots!!! Over and Out!!

      • David,

        You theorise that the Earth is flat. The evidence you have provided does not convince me, but I accept that you have the right to promote this theory.

        I have made many different personal observations, such as flying in aeroplanes, climbing tall mountains that look out over the sea, watching eclipses of the moon and observing the movements of the stars and planets, and observed many other related phenomena. The results of which convince me that the Earth is, in fact, a globe.

        Aside from what you have read on the internet and elsewhere, what personal observations have you made that provide evidence the Earth is flat?

        If the Earth is flat, what possible benefit do governments and scientists gain from pretending it is round?

        When did you first start believing the Earth is flat? What convinced you?

        I am sure you are not one of the small-minded people who embrace conspiracy and left-field theories because they give them a way to lash out at people who they see as having privilege and power, or to score points over people who they see as claiming to be ‘cleverer’. No I am, sure you are a person who honestly hods these beliefs and wishes to discuss them in a rational and polite manner, and I appreciate your time in reading this and responding to my questions.

        Like so many ‘conspiracy theories’ the Flat Eartyh Theory

        • I like that post ALOT Flat earth feed. from my posts In this thread you seriously have not gained any insight into what actions might have prompted me to develop my belief.

          I’ll start with, I now do not AT ALL believe we live on a ball. Beyond that I do not hold high levels of conviction as to what shape it is that we exist on. I am leaning towards infinite plane, why not, we have infinite space ehh?

          Where or what helped me get to believing the earth is not a ball- NASA (obvious fake videos actually show water bubbles), water test proves no curvature-Google bedford canal experiment(peer reviewed science), google state of KANSAS flatter than a pancake, you have to accept earth spinning on its axis at 1000 mph with water sticking to it(tough one for me ) and it goes on and on and on and on) . I think you have to come to be able ot accept in your that there are people out there who do not have your best interest in mind and will do anything for power/money. NASA budget since moon landing 1/2 trillion bucks, 2016 budget 16 Bikllion bucks- ALWAYS. FOLLOW. THE . MONEY. and on a nd on and on. Just go to youtube , I’m tired of typing the same shit when you can see it with yopur own eyes and once you do you won’t BELIEVE how YOU didn’t see it SOONER. PEACE

  28. Hi All
    Thanks again for all the comments – this has been really useful.

    I think that what is really coming through here is that there is a lack of trust towards academics. So I think the first thing we will need to do is engage with people on a simple level, visit the community, find common ground and let them know that we’re just regular people with different interests 🙂 . At least if there is some huge academic conspiracy going on I’ve missed the memo 😉 .

    There is certainly no need for fear and mistrust since we all share the common ground of wanting the best for society and the future – at least that’s why I decided to study neuroscience and work towards a better understanding of how the brain works and what happens when things go wrong!

    I also want to suggest that this is not the best platform for debating this topic. I would love to receive ideas for science experiments I could roll out in the community (inner city) but further debate on this topic is not really helpful here.

    Thanks again guys

    • Sarah,

      Thank you for allowing all comments and questions to be published. I have found, on other forums, that the moderators limit the comments to suit their own agenda.
      Here are some suggestions for experiments:

      1. Project for school children, in either maths or science class, to measure the curvature of the earth. This is approx. 12cm per mile increasing with the square of the distance (I think that is correct)


      Students could devise a method of actually measuring this and then conduct experiments to prove the curvature of the earth. Standing bodies of water are maybe best – canals, large lakes; or maybe short distances across the sea.

      Once empirical data from above experiment is obtained, then:

      2. Ascertain the distance from the earth to the sun by either spherical trigonometry or simple triangulation (dependent upon results of experiment 1) Three observations, from three different cities, maybe one thousand miles apart, at exactly the same time of day, carefully measuring the angle of the sun to the surface of the earth.
      This will tell us the position of, and distance to, the sun…unless there is now something wrong with mathematics!

      Best Regards

  29. I am disabling comments on this post since they are moving well beyond the remit of my original question and descending into petty arguments.

    Sadly, I worry that the views of those who believe the Earth is flat seems to be strongly intertwined with a mistrust of those they perceive to have authority (including scientists – who I can attest, sadly, have little authority just a burning curiosity and drive to understand the world). This worries me much more than the exact nature of these unusual beliefs and I hope this may be rectified by more scientists stepping out of the lab and engaging with their communities in a fun (non-threatening) way.

    Please take care all – and remember no matter what your beliefs are do not turn them into an ‘us against them’ mentality before you actually take the time and effort to get to know who ‘they’ actually are – by this I mean in person not behind the protective anonymity of a computer screen!


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